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Blades and kodogu-modern and by non-Japanese: What is it?


cabowen

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I am often intrigued by blades and kodogu made in the Japanese style by non-Japanese artisans/craftsman. While I have yet to see a Western made Japanese style blade on the same level craft-wise as what is made in Japan, I have seen Western made kodogu that does compete equally with the native versions.

 

I personally don't consider a Western made Japanese style sword a "Japanese sword", and I suppose I would have to say by extension, I can't consider kodogu made by Western craftsman anything but work done in the Japanese style.

 

I greatly admire the skills, craft, and dedication that many in the West possess and have nothing but respect for their efforts but I have to wonder, what market do they serve? Most of the nihon-to collectors I know well always tell me they wouldn't buy Western made because it is not Japanese ( "I collect Japanese swords, not Japanese style swords"...). I am sure there must be those out there that appreciate fine workmanship regardless of origin, but I have met very few.

 

I know many modern craftsman in Japan and they always talk about how hard a road they travel when they are competing for sales with all of the existing antique items. Not many collectors will pay $10,000 for a modern made blade or $5000 for a modern tsuba when there are antique options available by well known artisans at the same or even lower price points. Imagine how much more difficult it must be to compete for non-Japanese crafts people...

 

I know woodblock print artists making prints in the Japanese style, as well as other Western artists/craftspeople, working in a traditional Japanese craft, and most seem to be placed in their special category rather than accepted as part of the Japanese craft circle.

 

How many here have or would buy Western made Japanese style blades and/or kodogu? Do you consider it the same as Japanese made, or do you consider them reproductions or?

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Well - remember the road we fell down talking of Western influence on Japanese art :roll:

 

This is not the same thank GOD so : knowing the process am often very impressed with the work of modern smiths both Japanese and Western, but without the age, the history and the fact that the piece of art is still here they don't appeal to me as much as the older blades. They were also made under circumstances and conditions probably not quite as good as today.

 

It is not hard to spend 10 grand on a painting done by someone today that looks like a white dot on a blue background but give me a real Rembrandt print for the same money and I am much happier - just my 2 cents.

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I am in the same boat. I have rapiers hand made for practice and a shinken for that as well, but, do not consider them as legitimate parts of my collection, Nihonto or otherwise. I am amazed at the craft and artistry of some modern western smiths/artists and support them as much as feasible in keeping the art alive. However, even modern Japanese work is not my focus. No bones about it, I am an antiquarian, full stop. It is the place in history that adds to the mystique these artifacts survive that entices. John

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I feel it is the aesthetic we value rather than the object in question itself. In the case of Nihonto we are all in love with a cultural view whether we have looked at it that way or not. It is the unique cultural perspective that created Nihonto and it's many facets but that perspective once expressed is not exclusive to the genre. I have thought about this a lot since moving back from Japan and there is something very unique in Japanese art. What is it though? My conclusion is that it there is deep emotional restraint in Japanese culture that explodes in it's art. An extreme focus of energies seem to be captured in the various expressions. This exists within the relative field of Nihonto beyond and outside of Japan and I personally love to find it. Several of my friends are restorationists who do amazing work. It is impossible to do this without having a deep understanding of the Japanese aesthetic. That is why in my woodworking I cannot let my creations go so easily (or cheaply) I see them as a perfect expression of myself

Jim

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Interesting topic. The reality is in this specific field we're faced with a blurred distinction of antiquities (some of which may have aesthetic qualities) and aesthetic works of art which don't depend of age to validate them. True art is ultimately timeless...and not a consequence of age.

 

I have to point out the inherent racist position in suggesting that only Japanese people can make 'real' Japanese art. In any other, mature, art-form, this nationalistic prejudice would be an embarrassment. A brief survey of classical 'European music' should serve as sufficient warning in that respect.

 

Having said all that I have to conclude that the observations of the OP are actually sound, as supported by the preceeding 2 posts.

 

For me this thread is quite timely. I've struggled against all the odds for nearly 20 years now and in the last few weeks/months finally come to the realisation that in real terms, ie; making a living that might support my family, this endeavour is a waste of time. This is obviously something artisans in Japan realised a long time ago....my idealism sustained me for just a few more futile years. :(

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Although I collect Japanese swords and fittiings I had no problem buying Ford Hallam tsuba. I love his work. If I saw his tsuba on a table at a sword show I would stop, look and hope that I could afford it. My buying the tsuba was two fold in purpose: I wanted to support Ford and I really liked the tsuba.

I am saddened to read Ford's post that was just made before mine. In it he basically says that he cannot afford to continue his journey in this research driven artisitc endeavour.

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I understand that there exists a bias in Nihonto collecting circles against non-Japanese craftsmen/artists, and I suspect that this bias is unlikely to change anytime soon if at all, but I think it's silly.

I can be proud to own tsuka-maki done by Dave McDonald, a fine habaki by John Tirado is no less fine due to his ethnicity, Ford's tsuba are art (no prefix necessary), and if I collected shin saku-to it shouldn't matter who made it, only how well it was made.

Remember: buy the blade, not the name.

Grey

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That is why in my woodworking I cannot let my creations go so easily (or cheaply) I see them as a perfect expression of myself

Jim

 

Funny you should mention that as I said nearly the same thing to a carpenter friend of mine who was checking on my Japanese style home construction progress...I told him that my wife, who is at the end of her rope with me because we still aren't in the house after 7 years of work, hasn't figured out yet that this is my legacy to my progeny. All that I am is in this house-good and bad...it is a book that tells my story....It is my love letter to my family...

 

Chris,

 

How would you classify Ford Hallam's work?

 

I have some of his tsuba and consider them as Japanese craft due to his training :)

 

He should have been born 200 years ago in Japan....I think his work is worthy of collecting, though as I said, unfortunately, I think the market for western made Japanese style art is a small one. Reading his response below about the frustration he faces in earning a living at it brings to mind, sadly, similar sentiments I have heard from craftsman in Japan. Most of the tsubako I know do it more as a hobby because they can not earn a living doing it. It has gotten that way for the majority of sword smiths as well after 20 years of recession in Japan.

 

I have to point out the inherent racist position in suggesting that implying that only Japanese people can make 'real' Japanese art. In any other, mature, art-form, this nationalistic prejudice would be an embarrassment. A brief survey of classical 'European music' should serve as sufficient warning in that respect.

 

I agree fully that art is timeless and that one does not need to be Japanese to make art in a Japanese style, but I don't think it is racist to state that only a Japanese can make a Japanese sword. It is by definition made by a Japanese. I am not saying you have to be Japanese to make a good sword, but any sword made by someone not Japanese is a Japanese style sword, not a Japanese sword....I think it is this distinction that makes life difficult for westerners trying to gain acceptance of their work in the Japanese style. No matter the quality, seemingly, it is always looked at as an homage, rather than the real thing....I have heard that Keith Austin battled this his whole career...

 

Grey's comment about buying a blade and not a name, is great in theory but difficult in practice when you are considering shinsakuto and you can actually meet the craftsman....I met many smiths in Japan. People are the same everywhere- some you like, some you are indifferent to, and some you hope you never meet again. I had a blade I loved by a smith and was excited to have the chance to meet him. He was one I didn't desire to meet again and I sold the blade because no matter how good it was, all I thought of when I looked at it was what an ass the smith was....It is hard to divorce the art from the artist when it is modern....

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That is a sad thing to hear Ford. In such a selective and limited market I am afraid that most of these esoteric arts will always be difficult to provide a comfortable income. I am sure even historically you will find artists struggled to survive and depended often on enlightened and wealthy patrons to keep the bread and salt on the table. I commiserate. John

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Chris, I believe that the term "Japanese Sword" is more like "French Fry" for most people. It is a type (of sword or potato) and does not necessarily designate who made it or where. In your definition, is it still a "Japanese Sword" if it were made by a Japanese craftsman while visiting in New York? What about a sword made by a descendant of a Westerner who has lived in Japan all his life, is trained in the traditional methods and made the sword in Tokyo? We are varied group - some art lovers, some scientists, some martial artists, and some Ninja wannabes, but we better wake up and see the true intrinsic value of things (or we'll never realize that the "Emperor has no clothes" like the others ogling elephant dung spread on a canvas at the Met just because someone else classified it as art). If we are honest (and not just romantics reveling in the Samurai/Ninja myth), we should value the better made sword or more appealing fitting regardless of who made it, when or where.

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We are each entitled to our own interpretation of what it is we collect I suppose but for me a Japanese sword is defined by a 1000 year tradition. It is made by a licensed Japanese smith who was trained by a Japanese smith, etc., in accordance with that tradition, within parameters that have been defined through history. It is made with particular materials in a particular way.

 

Western smiths may get the form, but without the training and materials, it lacks the essence that makes it a Japanese sword....It is always a sword made in the Japanese style. I am not saying it is without merit, just that it is different, and I personally don't collect that type of blade.

 

I would consider a blade made by a Japanese smith with traditional materials a Japanese sword no matter where it was made. It would be hard to argue that the blades Keith Austin made with traditional materials aren't Japanese swords since he was a fully trained in the Japanese tradition, but he is the only westerner ever fully trained and licensed as a Japanese smith.

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Chris, once you expanded on your definition and why you collect "Japanese Swords" (the "traditional training, methods and materials"), I believe that my point became clearer to you. Based on your new definition (it's not about the person, it's about the traditional training, methods and materials), if a Westerner who was trained in the traditional craft made a sword using traditional materials and methods in New York, then it would be a "Japanese Sword". I can respect that. Following your logic (like you did in your original post going from sword makers to fitting makers), I believe that you would now say that a Westerner who was trained in the traditional craft and made fittings using traditional material and methods in South Africa would be making "Japanese Fittings". Interestingly, I understand that most, if not all, Japanese (people) fitting makers in Japan are no longer smelting their own alloys for kinko works and are instead using modern prepared billets (not traditional materials). Therefore, the modern fittings made by those Japanese (people) fitting makers are not "Japanese Fittings" under your definition (because they are not using traditional materials or methods) and you would not buy or collect them. Conversely, I understand that Ford does do his own smelting, so if you purchase any modern kinko "Japanese Fittings", it can only be from Ford :D If each of us really investigates why he/she collects (e.g., it's the amazing results from using traditional methods and materials, attention to detail, aesthetic, etc.), and it's not just about the romantic Samurai history, then we should open our minds to swords and fittings made by non-Japanese if they are comparable in terms of quality, aesthetic and price.

 

For the record, I'm not a friend of Ford's (but I'd like to be), I'm not an artist, and I'm not in the business of making or selling Japanese Swords or Fittings (or any similar items made by Japanese or non-Japanese people).

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I am happy to have David McDonald wrap a handle for me, for Brian Tschernaga to make a habaki for me, for John Terado to make a shirasaya for me, and for Ford Hallam to make a tsuba for me. Brian, David and Ford have all entered contests in Japan and had some recognition and success for their respective work.

I think that on of Brians early habaki was thought to have actually been made by his teacher. Brian was that good and now is better.

I have yet to buy a sword by a modern non-Japanese smith. If the opportunity comes I will take a serious look at the blade. Pierre Nadeau has completed 5.5 years of traditional training in sword making. I do not know if he completed his training but I will look for him to make swords in the future - Japanese swords made with traditional materials in the traditional way.

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George, You have mentioned the romance of samurai history twice and even the dreaded ninja word as if that is a despicable thing. Never-minding the Hollywood ninja hype and the minor role they played in Japanese history, the knowledge of the 'entire' history of Japan is necessary to understand how the Japanese sword came about, evolved and the effect it had on its' people. It is within this context that the true artfulness of its' construction becomes truly appreciated, from the lowly charcoal burner to the consummate smith working for the great lords of the times. As well as say kenjutsuka are samurai wannabes and that is just not true on the whole. John

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Ford, I feel your pain. I do portraits in pencil and charcoal, and everytime somebody sees one they get this look of disbelieve and ask me why I don't do it for a living. Simple... it's nearly impossible to make a living as any kind of artist... or traditional craftsman for that matter.

 

With any art or craft traditionally linked to a place, era, or ethinicity, I mainly care about how it was made and the skill level of the artist, not what their background is. Some of the greatest artist in history didn't do a ten year apprenticeship or learn under a master. I'm not saying these things don't mean anything, but to me they aren't the final word on judging an artist's work.

 

Also, I'm glad to hear all the open-minded answers... :clap:

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John, you misunderstand my comments about romantic Samurai history (but not my comment about Ninja wannabes which has nothing to do with true martial artists - which I aspire to be...). I am simply saying that if someone is collecting mainly because they like historical items, then I'm not speaking to them (and aesthetics and quality are probably secondary considerations; some collectors would rather have a sword that was actually used by a Samurai than have a sword that is superior in terms of quality and aesthetic that was not used by a Samurai, and that's OK, but it's not what I'm talking about). However, if someone is collecting because these swords and fittings are high-quality, beautiful works of art, then I'm speaking to them.

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I find this a bit strange. You make people with an historic interest in an item look bad this way.

 

What is wrong with someone collecting an historic artefact ? You are mistaken where it concerns people who do that since those people often do know, value and adhere as well to the art-part of the artefact as to its history and provenance.

 

To discount the history of the Samurai era when regarding these swords, which for the Samurai of old were part of their essence is to discount these swords from their original status. What I mean by that is that when you see a samurai sword just as a piece of highly collectible art, you are not honoring the rich history of these items.

 

KM

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I just want to say how much I appreciate the various expressions of commiseration and support that many of Gents have posted. To be honest the amount of 'hand in pocket' support I've received from many of you has been more than I could have expected and has allowed me to keep pushing my own development way beyond what I ever imagined. I mean, you'd have to be just a bit crazy to think you could make a decent living as a full time tsuba-shi in the 21st cent. :crazy: I've given it a good go though, and with your support made more tsuba than any tsuba-shi in Japan in the last 100 years I reckon.

 

I'm not done yet, by a long shot...I've always had other arrows in my quiver. This endeavour was always driven mainly by passion and it will continue that way. :D

 

As I wrote in my original post, there is an inherent racism in the Japanese sword world that we don't see in other artistic fields. There are historic and political reasons for this and I don't need to elaborate on them here. It's always been evident to me that for many non-Japanese collectors the very 'Japanese-ness' and the historical age and associations are of primary concern. This is perfectly understandable and no-one can suggest it ought to be otherwise...this is simply a matter of taste and interest.

 

But the notion that one's nationality is somehow relevant in qualifying your work is racist no matter how you try to define it. No-one would suggest that Yo-Yo Ma (born of Chinese parents) isn't rightly considered one of the most gifted cellists performing today...his ethnicity is irrelevant.

is now considered one of the finest classical guitarists in the world and is universally applauded by both the professional performing community and audiences. However you still see the occasional small-minded comment on YouTube to the effect that she ought to be playing a traditional Chinese musical instrument :dunno:

 

In Japan there is also a very real understanding, in all craft fields, that the present is sustained by the past and that there ought not to be a break in that continuum if these arts are to continue to be relevant. This is at the very heart of Shinto and underpins the continual rebuilding of the Ise Shrine. In any living and dynamic tradition this connection keeps the past very much alive and allows a degree of 'communication' that is the truest way of honouring and respecting that tradition. When a tradition dies, or becomes moribund, we lose access to that world and the creations of that tradition become mute artefacts that we are separated from. At that point we resort to projecting our own subjective values onto the objects, we decide what they mean, rather then the objects speaking to us. This may be a modern, egocentric ailment :?

 

regards,

 

Ford

 

p.s. And if we accept Chris' definition of what constitutes 'real' Japanese swords and tosogu then George is perhaps correct...he he, I'm the last 'real' tsuba-shi 8) and I'm making my own steel now too, not just kinko alloys. ;) Hmmm...I feel another film coming on :badgrin:

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I am coming late to the topic which opens a range of interesting subjects none of which can have a definitive answer. I am also a great admirer of Ford's work and have had the privilege of seeing many of his pieces first hand. However I have never bought one. Likewise I have never bought a modern sword. This is not a quality issue, I believe Ford's work to be amongst the best I have seen, nor some misplaced affection for the romantic past, it is based on the opinion (and thats all it is) that art has its place and time. Subsequent work in a style using the same material and technique is out of time and context. It is therefore at best a copy or a pastiche of the original form. This is true of painting (a modern work in the style of a 16th century master is not the same or regarded with the same esteem) modern made flint and percussion lock firearms or Japanese swords and fittings. basically they are made out of their time.

Art and technology progress by addressing or reflecting the needs and issues of their time. While one must learn from history and benefit from that knowledge it is important that modern artisans make things that are relevent to the here and now. There will always be a place and affection for those with the great skill and commitment who keep older traditions alive but I think it unlikely, with few exceptions, that they would ever be held in the same regard or their work valued as highly as those who produced the original work.

I am not saying it is right or fair but just reflects the reality of the market.

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Dear KM, please reread Chris' Original Post - it is about modern Japanese people's work verses modern non-Japanese people's work. It does not include modern verses antique. Therefore, as I've said in each of my posts, I'm not looking at the consideration of antique (or historical) verses modern (I'm not trying to belittle history, its effect or those who are interested in it, I'm merely trying to avoid that Red Herring). Instead, Chris' original post (and my comments) are focused on: if you are willing to collect modern, what would be the justification for only collecting Japanese people's work (especially if some Westerners have assimilated the aesthetic and original methods and materials).

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But the notion that one's nationality is somehow relevant in qualifying your work is racist no matter how you try to define it.

 

Discrimination based on nationality is not racism. The Japanese are of the Asian race. I wouldn't consider a Chinese made Japanese style sword to be a Japanese sword either, and most people refer to even the better Chinese made Japanese style swords as repros. While it just happens to be the case that many Westerners are not of the Asian race, it is not race, but nationality, that is being discussed.

 

It is difficult to find good analogies but let's say someone collects African tribal art. A fellow from Cedar Rapids Iowa, after a few visits to an African tribe, starts crafting his own which, due to his research and crafting skills, is almost identical to the original. Is it African Tribal Art? I don't think so. Is it art and does it have merit in its own right? No reason it can't. If I am a collector of African tribal art, do I collect it? Some might, but since I don't consider him to be part of an African tribe, I don't believe it fits my definition of what it is I collect.

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I usually go by what Webster has to say:

 

racism |ˈrāˌsizəm|

noun

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

• prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief : a program to combat racism.

 

So that is where I am coming from...It is not about race, it is about country of origin.

 

Are there any collectors of Nihon-to that buy Chinese made blades and consider them Nihon-to?

 

The Japanese government does not consider them Nihon-to and I know of no collector that does either.

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http://According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[14]

 

This where I'm coming from...and having grown up in South Africa this is a subject that we're acutely conscious of. :(

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Does this apply to things as well as people?

 

Collectors create categories so the act of collecting itself is inherently discriminatory I suppose, but using the word racist seems a little overboard....

 

I have a hard time believing that if some fellow in France insisted on only buying German made cars, he would be considered racist.

 

Similarly, someone who collected French Impressionist painting and refused a work in that tradition created by, say, an American, would be considered a racist?

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That is why 'historical context' is so important including lineage until modern times. After all there were non-Japanese making swords in Japan historically, smiths of different genetic heritage making swords within the archipelago and swords made in mainland fashion that precede our current definition of Nihonto. It isn't DNA; it is centuries of development. John

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Chris,

 

your comments seem to miss the very real difference between personal preference and an active bias based on race, heritage or colour. To be frank I find this all a bit silly and disingenuous, some might regard your semantic contortions as being quite insulting...

 

Of course everyone is completely free to admire, collect...whatever, anything they choose and based on whatever criteria they decide.

 

It a very different thing to suggest, as you did, that non-Japanese cannot make authentic work (however we define that) in the Japanese tradition. As I pointed out by my references to various other art forms, the original cultural or national origin is generally regarded as being no longer a barrier to committed, sincere and talented practitioners....wherever they come from.

 

My favourite operatic duet is one from

. Written in French, the gold standard recording is considered by many experts as being one of Jussi Björling and Robert Merrill made in 1951. Björling was Swedish and Merrill an American. They performed their masterpiece collaboration singing in an Italian derived art form in French. Now you may not like or appreciate this type of music but to claim that somehow their work is not legitimate in some way due to the various cultural or national incongruencies would be to identify oneself as an insensitive cultural ignoramus.

 

Anyway, I think I've explained myself eloquently enough for those who care to think about the subject. I don't think I have anything more to add.

 

But just to stir the pot a bit consider this; if I were to make fakes I can assure you they would not be detected. So how would you critique those pieces without direct reference to my not being Japanese nor dead for 200 or more years? :lol: Do I need to fool the establishment to prove my validity?....it wouldn't be the first time ;)

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